[menscouncil] Research into potential sites for an offsite Retreat
Russell, John
jrussell at reinhartrealtors.com
Mon Jan 23 13:13:35 CST 2023
Hi Tom, all,
Tom, I think it's only you and me responding. Regarding the Sept 22-24
weekend.....yes it's a home game, but it's a pre-Big-Ten game (Bowling
Green). I guess I wasn't clear that the concern about the home game was due
to the church's proximity to game-day football traffic for a church
property retreat, or about people missing the game. On the minimum
attendance, I said we'd have 50-60, which was the standard number for our
prior retreats, but I'm sure they'd work with us for whatever number of
people we'd like.
In the end, it's clear to me that the energy or preference is not there
within the Men's Council to do an offsite retreat. I just need to let that
go. Oh well. If we change our minds in the future, at least we have some
information about the various camp options.
- John
On Mon, Jan 23, 2023 at 10:59 AM Tom Chettleburgh <tchettleburgh at gmail.com>
wrote:
> I'm not certain that my emails are being read. I brought up two major
> concerns which I feel needs to be addressed before we do another poll or
> consider Copneconic.
>
> 1. Minimum-attendance requirement. I don't believe we will have more
> than 30 men. I'm happy to make a call to the camp, if you want.
> 2. Sept 22-24 is a Michigan home football weekend, which everybody seemed
> to think (at our meeting) would limit attendance.
>
> The congregational meeting was eye-opening to me on why our mens retreats
> don't have involvement from younger men. They don't exist in our
> congregation anymore. I believe I heard that our SGD count is at 120.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 7:09 AM Tom Chettleburgh <tchettleburgh at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> John,
>>
>> Is there a minimum-attendance requirement? I recall the women were
>> struggling at one time to get enough attendance to make Copneconic work. I
>> am all for Copneconic this year, but I have no desire to meet a
>> minimum-attendance requirement.
>>
>> Tom
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 21, 2023 at 2:02 PM Russell, John <
>> jrussell at reinhartrealtors.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hmmmm. A couple things.....
>>>
>>> - As a different interpretation of the initial data, it appears to
>>> me, from totalling the Yes vs No counts, that there were 26 responses and
>>> 16 were Yes, which means over 60% responded Yes to attending an offsite
>>> retreat.
>>> - In hindsight (which is always 20/20), we should have waited to
>>> send out the survey until I had more info. COVID is still "top of mind" for
>>> a lot of people. Some important points that I learned from the practices at
>>> the women's retreat that would address COVID concerns: With one exception
>>> of 5 friends in one sleeping room, the women had no more than 2 in a room
>>> for their Copneconic Retreat. Also, everyone had to provide a
>>> negative self-test just before the retreat, and they required
>>> wearing masks when in the indoor large spaces unless they were eating or
>>> drinking. For breakouts, the breakout groups could decide for themselves if
>>> they wanted to wear masks. Masks were not required outdoors.
>>>
>>> Camp Copneconic gave us 2 weeks to sign a contract. I'd like to propose
>>> we canvass the men again, stating that:
>>>
>>> 1. We'd have no more than 2 in a sleeping room, unless some men
>>> voluntarily wanted to add another.
>>> 2. COVID self-tests before arriving, which are provided to the
>>> Retreat organizers.
>>> 3. Masks required when in large indoor group activities, except
>>> during meals.
>>> 4. Masks not required in indoor breakouts *if the entire group* is
>>> comfortable without masks.
>>> 5. Masks not required outdoors.
>>> 6. No tent or RV camping allowed due to camp licensing restrictions.
>>>
>>> That said, if the consensus of the Men's Council is that we do a
>>> day-long gathering at the Church and not an offsite Retreat, that's fine.
>>> I'll pursue no further and there's no need to send another survey. Please,
>>> all men on the Council, chime in. Thank you,
>>> - John
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 7:45 PM Jim Schaefer <jim at jvscontrols.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Nice summary on retreat locations John, thanks !
>>>>
>>>> Thought I would give results of the 28 survey responses so far. (BTW..
>>>> in retrospect I think question 2 is not very useful)
>>>>
>>>> My interpretation is that people are slightly in favor of off-site, but
>>>> only 16 people said yes. In my mind 16 people is not enough momentum to
>>>> change to off-site. I think if it were off site there are more people that
>>>> would not come just because it was off site. Whereas if we held it at the
>>>> church our numbers would probably be higher. At the church we probably end
>>>> up serving more people.
>>>>
>>>> Jim
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Question 1:
>>>>
>>>> Hypothetically, if you were asked to sign up for the men's retreat
>>>> today and it cost $160 for two nights at a camp no more than 1 hour away
>>>> from the church would you sign up ? (Assume sleeping accommodations were 4
>>>> to 7 people in a room and there was no tent camping available. Trailer or
>>>> RV OK)
>>>>
>>>> 10 no
>>>> 16 yes
>>>>
>>>> Question 2
>>>>
>>>> Would you attend if the only difference to the previous hypothetical
>>>> question was that tent camping was allowed ?
>>>> 10 no
>>>> 15 yes
>>>>
>>>> QUestion 3
>>>>
>>>> The men's council cannot organize an off-site retreat without more
>>>> help. Would you be willing to meet monthly and spend at least 10 hours in
>>>> total making the off-site retreat happen ?
>>>>
>>>> 14 no
>>>> 12 yes
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Comments:
>>>> Love it!
>>>> Since it's been over 3 years since we did an off-site retreat, and some
>>>> men have never attended an offsite retreat, I'd like to put some context
>>>> into the intro, such as "Some have expressed a desire to hold a Friday
>>>> evening to Sunday morning retreat offsite at a summer camp location like we
>>>> did for many years." Also, in the retreat location question, I believe it
>>>> will be helpful to also add context to the type of room men will sleep in
>>>> such as "Assume sleeping accommodations were 4 to 7 people in a cabin-style
>>>> room and there was no tent camping available. Trailer or RV OK"
>>>> I greatly preferred the on-site at the UUAA building format. I do not
>>>> think I would do a multi-day off-site event, at least not this next time
>>>> around.
>>>> I would be glad to contribute to developing an agenda, but would leave
>>>> the logistics to someone else. Although I may not attend the Appleton Men's
>>>> Retreat next weekend as we may become grandparents this week, I have been
>>>> involved in that agenda which we entitled "When is enough, enough?" which
>>>> is addressing finances, social and work relationships, and self esteem.
>>>> John Burke
>>>> The coronavirus is still with us.
>>>> I am happy with the local retreats and would prefer that we continue to
>>>> hold them at the church.
>>>> I thought the one-day format at the church was excellent
>>>> 10/1 is my anniversary = often i can’t make the normal retreat weekend.
>>>> 2023 =special, so extended blackout-dates. I would still help, but i am not
>>>> available after 09/18 - 10/12
>>>> I would probably come one night or the other and stay in my van. I do
>>>> like the overnight component. I also enjoyed when we took time to make art
>>>> or crafts that I otherwise find it hard to get started on.
>>>> I can do specific tasks and attend occasional meetings, but I'd rather
>>>> not meet regularly
>>>> I will be happy to help plan future offsite retreats when I'm off the
>>>> board in a year and a half.
>>>> Sorry for not helping, but my slate is full right now.
>>>> I would pay extra to be in a room with less than 4 people. 7 people in
>>>> a room seems like a lot.
>>>> It's hard to answer the hypothetical. I plan to attend the retreat in
>>>> whatever form it happens. IF it's at UUAA again, I would strongly suggest
>>>> getting small group time started on Friday evening to allow more time for
>>>> focus and connection. I do not have time to join the planning and prep.
>>>> Thank you.
>>>> To be honest, I am still hesitant about being in larger in-person
>>>> gatherings. So while I'd love to spend this kind of extended time with
>>>> other UUAA men, I would say I am more of a "Maybe" at this point.
>>>>
>>>> On 1/20/2023 7:00 PM, Tom Chettleburgh wrote:
>>>>
>>>> John, Thank you. This is a great breakdown of these 4 camps. I agree
>>>> with you that the best two options are Copneconic and Storer. I also like
>>>> the idea of paying extra for some of the activities like canoeing/kayaking.
>>>>
>>>> With Copneconic, I wonder if the men will have an issue with the
>>>> weekend, being a Michigan home football game, and the cost--we would
>>>> probably want to charge $170 like the women. And this would not include a
>>>> t-shirt. I am fine with missing the game, but others may not be--maybe we
>>>> can arrange the day so we have a lengthy free time during the game.
>>>>
>>>> If the game limits attendance, Storer that last weekend in September
>>>> may be our better option.
>>>>
>>>> Tom
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 11:40 AM John Russell <jrtreetown at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Tom, Jim, Bob, (other members of Men's Council included as FYI, but
>>>>> input is welcome):
>>>>> As I committed in our Men's Council meeting on Saturday, I
>>>>> contacted some camps about a possible Men's offsite retreat in the Fall. I
>>>>> contacted four camps - Camp Copneconic (where the UU women held a retreat
>>>>> this past fall), Camp Storer (a "Y" camp similar to Camp Copneconic), Camp
>>>>> Talahi (a camp used for Men's retreats up until about 10 years ago, when
>>>>> they temporarily closed but are now open again), and Earthwell Retreat &
>>>>> Nature Sanctuary. All are within an hour's drive from A2. What I learned
>>>>> from my calls and other research:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Earthwell Retreat <https://www.earthwellretreat.com>
>>>>> - Jim Schaefer suggested looking into this camp, located outside
>>>>> Manchester
>>>>> - This camp offers "personal and group retreat experiences that
>>>>> promote harmony with nature, self, and others
>>>>> - 18 beds total across several cabins (and some of the beds are
>>>>> upper bunks), 30-person indoor space with an outdoor tent for larger
>>>>> gatherings, etc.
>>>>> - This could be a great space for a quiet retreat for a smaller
>>>>> group. They offer yoga, meditation, wellness themes. Food is catered, all
>>>>> vegetarian, and focused on farm-to-table.
>>>>> - We could rent the entire camp, but unfortunately it's *not
>>>>> large enough and doesn't have lodging nor meeting facilities that we need*
>>>>> .
>>>>> 2. Camp Talahi <http://camptalahi.org/location/>
>>>>> - Sleeping Space: 2 dorms, 22 bunk beds in each, plus three
>>>>> 500-600 sq ft cabins with 4 beds each. As far as space, I believe we need
>>>>> to make an assumption that most men won't want to climb up to a top bunk.
>>>>> That said, the 2 dorms would accommodate 44 of us, with the cabins holding
>>>>> the rest. The cabins have no bathrooms.
>>>>> - Breakout space: The main lodge has a meeting area indoors,
>>>>> plus a front porch and a side porch, so breakout meeting space is
>>>>> available.
>>>>> - Food: The camp has a commercial kitchen but it's not staffed.
>>>>> They have an outside cook who can come in and cook for us. The current
>>>>> owners closed on the property in June, construction/repairs are ongoing.
>>>>> - Friday night potluck: not a problem.
>>>>> - Tents, RVs not a problem because we have the whole camp.
>>>>> - We could rent the entire camp at a cost of about
>>>>> $3,000-$3500. ($60- about $70/person ) This does not include food.
>>>>> - Dates Availability: The last two weekends in September are
>>>>> booked. Sept 15-17 is available.
>>>>> - Positives: We've held retreats there before. We can rent the
>>>>> entire space so we have privacy as with past camps used for retreats.
>>>>> - Negatives: The big dorm sleeping arrangements, repairs and
>>>>> updates in progress.
>>>>> 3. YMCA Storer Camp <https://www.ymcastorercamps.org>
>>>>> - Used for Men's retreats about 20 years ago.
>>>>> - Sleeping Space: Four "Modern Lodges" with each lodge having
>>>>> four units that sleep 7 people each (not using top bunks), for a total of
>>>>> 28/lodge. We could use 2 lodges and cutoff registration at 56, or I could
>>>>> look into an additional lodge and/or a couple cabins. There are also
>>>>> "Rustic Cabins" but those have no bathrooms so guys would have to walk to a
>>>>> modern lodge to use the bathrooms.
>>>>> - Breakout space: Each modern lodge has a common room with
>>>>> couches, coffee tables and a fireplace. We could also use areas in the
>>>>> dining hall or another large space (Doc Miller Learning Center)
>>>>> - Food: Camp provides 4 meals (3 Saturday plus Sunday
>>>>> breakfast). Dietary restrictions can be accommodated (Vegetarian, Vegan,
>>>>> etc.).
>>>>> - Friday potluck: We could set up on Friday evening and do our
>>>>> Friday potluck in the Doc Miller Learning Center.
>>>>> - Tents, RVs: Per my contact he doesn't see a problem, but he
>>>>> said he had to look into it and get back to me. Based on what Camp
>>>>> Copneconic told me, I will say it's probably a No.
>>>>> - This camp provides activities at an extra cost if we're
>>>>> interested.
>>>>> - Dates Availibility: Right now, the last 2 weekends in Sept
>>>>> are available.
>>>>> - Positives: I believe this camp has the space, food,
>>>>> availability and features we need. My contact was very willing to work with
>>>>> us.
>>>>> - Negatives: Other groups could also be at the camp at the same
>>>>> time. The Dining Hall has 2 sides, so we could be somewhat separated, and
>>>>> we'd have separate space for sleeping, breakouts, etc. No tents, RVs.
>>>>> - Cost TBD. I would expect it will be similar to Camp
>>>>> Copneconic, but if we're sincerely interested in this camp, I can nail it
>>>>> down more.
>>>>> 4. YMCA Camp Copneconic <https://www.campcopneconic.org>
>>>>> - The location scoped out by Jim Schaefer and Rick Witten prior to
>>>>> the pandemic, and actually used for about 50 UU Women for a retreat in Fall
>>>>> of 2022.
>>>>> - I spoke with Judi Lintott, organizer for the women's 2022
>>>>> retreat, who was very helpful with providing information.
>>>>> - Sleeping space: The UU women used the Conference Center,
>>>>> which has 20 separate rooms, each with a couple beds, plus a couple smaller
>>>>> lodges. This is a large camp, and there are multiple lodges, so it will not
>>>>> be a problem to arrange sleeping space.
>>>>> - Breakout space: Dining Hall, Conference Center, a couple
>>>>> other lodges. No problem.
>>>>> - Food: The camp has it's own catering service. Dietary
>>>>> restrictions will be accommodated. 4 meals provided (Sat breakfast, lunch,
>>>>> dinner and Sunday breakfast)
>>>>> - Friday Potluck: The women did this on Friday evening. The
>>>>> camp provided silverware and utensils. We have to commit to no peanuts and
>>>>> no tree nuts.
>>>>> - This camp provides activities at an extra cost if we're
>>>>> interested (Archery, ziplines, climbing wall, kayaks/canoes). Small
>>>>> additional costs.
>>>>> - No tent camping nor RVs. The camp contact (Zack) said they
>>>>> don't have a license for tents and RVs, so they can't do it.
>>>>> - The UU women did a fair amount of COVID precautions and
>>>>> actions - e.g. everyone had to provide a negative self-test just before the
>>>>> retreat, masks during breakouts indoors. We could also do this, or some
>>>>> subset based on the COVID climate next fall.
>>>>> - Availability: Weekend of Sept 22-24 is available. The
>>>>> following weekend is not.
>>>>> - Cost: $150/person to the camp. The UU women added $20/person
>>>>> for incidentals.
>>>>> - Positives: Tried and tested recently by the UU women. Visited
>>>>> and actually booked for the men in the past (but cancelled due to COVID).
>>>>> This camp has the space, food, availability and features we need. We can
>>>>> separate our group into small groups for sleeping. The contact was very
>>>>> willing to work with us.
>>>>> - Negatives: Although the women had the camp to themselves, we
>>>>> may not be alone, per the contact. The Dining Hall has 2 sides, so we
>>>>> could be somewhat separated, and we'd have separate space for sleeping,
>>>>> breakouts, etc. No tents, RVs.
>>>>>
>>>>> *My thoughts:*
>>>>>
>>>>> - My first choice/recommendation is Camp Copneconic. 2nd choice
>>>>> would be Camp Storer.
>>>>> - Talahi is too limited on sleeping accommodations. Also in a
>>>>> state of remodeling/construction.
>>>>> - Note: All of these places don't allow alcohol, so we absolutely
>>>>> can't be openly drinking.
>>>>> - We're "penciled in" for both Copneconic and Storer. I'll cancel
>>>>> one when we have a decision.
>>>>>
>>>>> Let me know what you think.
>>>>> - John
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> menscouncil mailing list
>>>>> menscouncil at uuaa.org
>>>>> http://uuaa.org/mailman/listinfo/menscouncil_uuaa.org
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Jim Schaefer, P.E.
>>>> JVS Controls Inc.
>>>> 3998 Edmonton Ct
>>>> Ann Arbor MI 48103
>>>> (734) 994-0223 office
>>>> (734) 395-4941 mobile
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> menscouncil mailing list
>>>> menscouncil at uuaa.org
>>>> http://uuaa.org/mailman/listinfo/menscouncil_uuaa.org
>>>>
>>> --
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>>> http://uuaa.org/mailman/listinfo/menscouncil_uuaa.org
>>>
>>
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