[menscouncil] Research into potential sites for an offsite Retreat

Tom Chettleburgh tchettleburgh at gmail.com
Mon Jan 23 09:59:27 CST 2023


I'm not certain that my emails are being read.  I brought up two major
concerns which I feel needs to be addressed before we do another poll or
consider Copneconic.

1.  Minimum-attendance requirement.  I don't believe we will have more than
30 men.  I'm happy to make a call to the camp, if you want.
2.  Sept 22-24 is a Michigan home football weekend, which everybody seemed
to think (at our meeting) would limit attendance.

The congregational meeting was eye-opening to me on why our mens retreats
don't have involvement from younger men.  They don't exist in our
congregation anymore.  I believe I heard that our SGD count is at 120.



On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 7:09 AM Tom Chettleburgh <tchettleburgh at gmail.com>
wrote:

> John,
>
> Is there a minimum-attendance requirement?  I recall the women were
> struggling at one time to get enough attendance to make Copneconic work.  I
> am all for Copneconic this year, but I have no desire to meet a
> minimum-attendance requirement.
>
> Tom
>
> On Sat, Jan 21, 2023 at 2:02 PM Russell, John <
> jrussell at reinhartrealtors.com> wrote:
>
>> Hmmmm. A couple things.....
>>
>>    - As a different interpretation of the initial data, it appears to
>>    me, from totalling the Yes vs No counts, that there were 26 responses and
>>    16 were Yes, which means over 60% responded Yes to attending an offsite
>>    retreat.
>>    - In hindsight (which is always 20/20), we should have waited to send
>>    out the survey until I had more info. COVID is still "top of mind" for a
>>    lot of people. Some important points that I learned from the practices at
>>    the women's retreat that would address COVID concerns: With one exception
>>    of 5 friends in one sleeping room, the women had no more than 2 in a room
>>    for their Copneconic Retreat. Also, everyone had to provide a
>>    negative self-test just before the retreat, and they required wearing
>>    masks when in the indoor large spaces unless they were eating or drinking.
>>    For breakouts, the breakout groups could decide for themselves if they
>>    wanted to wear masks. Masks were not required outdoors.
>>
>> Camp Copneconic gave us 2 weeks to sign a contract.  I'd like to propose
>> we canvass the men again, stating that:
>>
>>    1. We'd have no more than 2 in a sleeping room, unless some men
>>    voluntarily wanted to add another.
>>    2. COVID self-tests before arriving, which are provided to the
>>    Retreat organizers.
>>    3. Masks required when in large indoor group activities, except
>>    during meals.
>>    4. Masks not required in indoor breakouts *if the entire group* is
>>    comfortable without masks.
>>    5. Masks not required outdoors.
>>    6. No tent or RV camping allowed due to camp licensing restrictions.
>>
>> That said, if the consensus of the Men's Council is that we do a day-long
>> gathering at the Church and not an offsite Retreat, that's fine. I'll
>> pursue no further and there's no need to send another survey. Please, all
>> men on the Council, chime in. Thank you,
>> - John
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 7:45 PM Jim Schaefer <jim at jvscontrols.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Nice summary on retreat locations John, thanks !
>>>
>>> Thought I would give results of the 28 survey responses so far.  (BTW..
>>> in retrospect I think question 2 is not very useful)
>>>
>>> My interpretation is that people are slightly in favor of off-site, but
>>> only 16 people said yes.  In my mind 16 people is not enough momentum to
>>> change to off-site.  I think if it were off site there are more people that
>>> would not come just because it was off site. Whereas if we held it at the
>>> church our numbers would probably be higher.  At the church we probably end
>>> up serving more people.
>>>
>>> Jim
>>>
>>>
>>> Question 1:
>>>
>>> Hypothetically, if you were asked to sign up for the men's retreat today
>>> and it cost $160 for two nights at a camp no more than 1 hour away from the
>>> church would you sign up ?  (Assume sleeping accommodations were 4 to 7
>>> people in a room and there was no tent camping available. Trailer or RV OK)
>>>
>>> 10 no
>>> 16 yes
>>>
>>> Question 2
>>>
>>> Would you attend if the only difference to the previous hypothetical
>>> question was that tent camping was allowed ?
>>> 10 no
>>> 15 yes
>>>
>>> QUestion 3
>>>
>>> The men's council cannot organize an off-site retreat without more
>>> help.   Would you be willing to meet monthly and spend at least 10 hours in
>>> total making the off-site retreat happen ?
>>>
>>> 14 no
>>> 12 yes
>>>
>>>
>>> Comments:
>>> Love it!
>>> Since it's been over 3 years since we did an off-site retreat, and some
>>> men have never attended an offsite retreat, I'd like to put some context
>>> into the intro, such as "Some have expressed a desire to hold a Friday
>>> evening to Sunday morning retreat offsite at a summer camp location like we
>>> did for many years." Also, in the retreat location question, I believe it
>>> will be helpful to also add context to the type of room men will sleep in
>>> such as "Assume sleeping accommodations were 4 to 7 people in a cabin-style
>>> room and there was no tent camping available. Trailer or RV OK"
>>> I greatly preferred the on-site at the UUAA building format. I do not
>>> think I would do a multi-day off-site event, at least not this next time
>>> around.
>>> I would be glad to contribute to developing an agenda, but would leave
>>> the logistics to someone else. Although I may not attend the Appleton Men's
>>> Retreat next weekend as we may become grandparents this week, I have been
>>> involved in that agenda which we entitled "When is enough, enough?" which
>>> is addressing finances, social and work relationships, and self esteem.
>>> John Burke
>>> The coronavirus is still with us.
>>> I am happy with the local retreats and would prefer that we continue to
>>> hold them at the church.
>>> I thought the one-day format at the church was excellent
>>> 10/1 is my anniversary = often i can’t make the normal retreat weekend.
>>> 2023 =special, so extended blackout-dates. I would still help, but i am not
>>> available after 09/18 - 10/12
>>> I would probably come one night or the other and stay in my van. I do
>>> like the overnight component. I also enjoyed when we took time to make art
>>> or crafts that I otherwise find it hard to get started on.
>>> I can do specific tasks and attend occasional meetings, but I'd rather
>>> not meet regularly
>>> I will be happy to help plan future offsite retreats when I'm off the
>>> board in a year and a half.
>>> Sorry for not helping, but my slate is full right now.
>>> I would pay extra to be in a room with less than 4 people. 7 people in a
>>> room seems like a lot.
>>> It's hard to answer the hypothetical. I plan to attend the retreat in
>>> whatever form it happens. IF it's at UUAA again, I would strongly suggest
>>> getting small group time started on Friday evening to allow more time for
>>> focus and connection. I do not have time to join the planning and prep.
>>> Thank you.
>>> To be honest, I am still hesitant about being in larger in-person
>>> gatherings. So while I'd love to spend this kind of extended time with
>>> other UUAA men, I would say I am more of a "Maybe" at this point.
>>>
>>> On 1/20/2023 7:00 PM, Tom Chettleburgh wrote:
>>>
>>> John,  Thank you.  This is a great breakdown of these 4 camps.  I agree
>>> with you that the best two options are Copneconic and Storer.  I also like
>>> the idea of paying extra for some of the activities like canoeing/kayaking.
>>>
>>> With Copneconic, I wonder if the men will have an issue with the
>>> weekend, being a Michigan home football game, and the cost--we would
>>> probably want to charge $170 like the women.  And this would not include a
>>> t-shirt.  I am fine with missing the game, but others may not be--maybe we
>>> can arrange the day so we have a lengthy free time during the game.
>>>
>>> If the game limits attendance, Storer that last weekend in September may
>>> be our better option.
>>>
>>> Tom
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 11:40 AM John Russell <jrtreetown at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Tom, Jim, Bob, (other members of Men's Council included as FYI, but
>>>> input is welcome):
>>>>     As I committed in our Men's Council meeting on Saturday, I
>>>> contacted some camps about a possible Men's offsite retreat in the Fall. I
>>>> contacted four camps - Camp Copneconic (where the UU women held a retreat
>>>> this past fall), Camp Storer (a "Y" camp similar to Camp Copneconic), Camp
>>>> Talahi (a camp used for Men's retreats up until about 10 years ago, when
>>>> they temporarily closed but are now open again), and Earthwell Retreat &
>>>> Nature Sanctuary.  All are within an hour's drive from A2. What I learned
>>>> from my calls and other research:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    1. Earthwell Retreat <https://www.earthwellretreat.com>
>>>>    - Jim Schaefer suggested looking into this camp, located outside
>>>>       Manchester
>>>>       - This camp offers "personal and group retreat experiences that
>>>>       promote harmony with nature, self, and others
>>>>       - 18 beds total across several cabins (and some of the beds are
>>>>       upper bunks), 30-person indoor space with an outdoor tent for larger
>>>>       gatherings, etc.
>>>>       - This could be a great space for a quiet retreat for a smaller
>>>>       group. They offer yoga, meditation, wellness themes. Food is catered, all
>>>>       vegetarian, and focused on farm-to-table.
>>>>       - We could rent the entire camp, but unfortunately it's *not
>>>>       large enough and doesn't have lodging nor meeting facilities that we need*
>>>>       .
>>>>    2. Camp Talahi <http://camptalahi.org/location/>
>>>>    - Sleeping Space: 2 dorms, 22 bunk beds in each, plus three 500-600
>>>>       sq ft cabins with 4 beds each. As far as space, I believe we need to make
>>>>       an assumption that most men won't want to climb up to a top bunk. That
>>>>       said, the 2 dorms would accommodate 44 of us, with the cabins holding the
>>>>       rest. The cabins have no bathrooms.
>>>>       - Breakout space: The main lodge has a meeting area indoors,
>>>>       plus a front porch and a side porch, so breakout meeting space is
>>>>       available.
>>>>       - Food: The camp has a commercial kitchen but it's not staffed.
>>>>       They have an outside cook who can come in and cook for us.  The current
>>>>       owners closed on the property in June, construction/repairs are ongoing.
>>>>       - Friday night potluck: not a problem.
>>>>       - Tents, RVs not a problem because we have the whole camp.
>>>>       - We could rent the entire camp at a cost of about $3,000-$3500.
>>>>       ($60- about $70/person ) This does not include food.
>>>>       - Dates Availability: The last two weekends in September are
>>>>       booked. Sept 15-17 is available.
>>>>       - Positives: We've held retreats there before. We can rent the
>>>>       entire space so we have privacy as with past camps used for retreats.
>>>>       - Negatives: The big dorm sleeping arrangements, repairs and
>>>>       updates in progress.
>>>>    3. YMCA Storer Camp <https://www.ymcastorercamps.org>
>>>>    - Used for Men's retreats about 20 years ago.
>>>>       - Sleeping Space: Four "Modern Lodges" with each lodge having
>>>>       four units that sleep 7 people each (not using top bunks), for a total of
>>>>       28/lodge. We could use 2 lodges and cutoff registration at 56, or I could
>>>>       look into an additional lodge and/or a couple cabins. There are also
>>>>       "Rustic Cabins" but those have no bathrooms so guys would have to walk to a
>>>>       modern lodge to use the bathrooms.
>>>>       - Breakout space: Each modern lodge has a common room with
>>>>       couches, coffee tables and a fireplace. We could also use areas in the
>>>>       dining hall or another large space (Doc Miller Learning Center)
>>>>       - Food: Camp provides 4 meals (3 Saturday plus Sunday
>>>>       breakfast). Dietary restrictions can be accommodated (Vegetarian, Vegan,
>>>>       etc.).
>>>>       - Friday potluck: We could set up on Friday evening and do our
>>>>       Friday potluck in the Doc Miller Learning Center.
>>>>       - Tents, RVs: Per my contact he doesn't see a problem, but he
>>>>       said he had to look into it and get back to me. Based on what Camp
>>>>       Copneconic told me, I will say it's probably a No.
>>>>       - This camp provides activities at an extra cost if we're
>>>>       interested.
>>>>       - Dates Availibility:  Right now, the last 2 weekends in Sept
>>>>       are available.
>>>>       - Positives: I believe this camp has the space, food,
>>>>       availability and features we need. My contact was very willing to work with
>>>>       us.
>>>>       - Negatives: Other groups could also be at the camp at the same
>>>>       time. The Dining Hall has 2 sides, so we could be somewhat separated, and
>>>>       we'd have separate space for sleeping, breakouts, etc. No tents, RVs.
>>>>       - Cost TBD. I would expect it will be similar to Camp
>>>>       Copneconic, but if we're sincerely interested in this camp, I can nail it
>>>>       down more.
>>>>    4. YMCA Camp Copneconic <https://www.campcopneconic.org>
>>>>    - The location scoped out by Jim Schaefer and Rick Witten prior to
>>>>       the pandemic, and actually used for about 50 UU Women for a retreat in Fall
>>>>       of 2022.
>>>>       - I spoke with Judi Lintott, organizer for the women's 2022
>>>>       retreat, who was very helpful with providing information.
>>>>       - Sleeping space: The UU women used the Conference Center, which
>>>>       has 20 separate rooms, each with a couple beds, plus a couple smaller
>>>>       lodges. This is a large camp, and there are multiple lodges, so it will not
>>>>       be a problem to arrange sleeping space.
>>>>       - Breakout space: Dining Hall, Conference Center, a couple other
>>>>       lodges. No problem.
>>>>       - Food: The camp has it's own catering service. Dietary
>>>>       restrictions will be accommodated. 4 meals provided (Sat breakfast, lunch,
>>>>       dinner and Sunday breakfast)
>>>>       - Friday Potluck: The women did this on Friday evening. The camp
>>>>       provided silverware and utensils. We have to commit to no peanuts and no
>>>>       tree nuts.
>>>>       - This camp provides activities at an extra cost if we're
>>>>       interested (Archery, ziplines, climbing wall, kayaks/canoes). Small
>>>>       additional costs.
>>>>       - No tent camping nor RVs. The camp contact (Zack) said they
>>>>       don't have a license for tents and RVs, so they can't do it.
>>>>       - The UU women did a fair amount of COVID precautions and
>>>>       actions - e.g. everyone had to provide a negative self-test just before the
>>>>       retreat, masks during breakouts indoors. We could also do this, or some
>>>>       subset based on the COVID climate next fall.
>>>>       - Availability: Weekend of Sept 22-24 is available. The
>>>>       following weekend is not.
>>>>       - Cost: $150/person to the camp. The UU women added $20/person
>>>>       for incidentals.
>>>>       - Positives: Tried and tested recently by the UU women. Visited
>>>>       and actually booked for the men in the past (but cancelled due to COVID).
>>>>       This camp has the space, food, availability and features we need. We can
>>>>       separate our group into small groups for sleeping. The contact was very
>>>>       willing to work with us.
>>>>       - Negatives: Although the women had the camp to themselves, we
>>>>       may not be alone, per the contact.  The Dining Hall has 2 sides, so we
>>>>       could be somewhat separated, and we'd have separate space for sleeping,
>>>>       breakouts, etc. No tents, RVs.
>>>>
>>>> *My thoughts:*
>>>>
>>>>    - My first choice/recommendation is Camp Copneconic. 2nd choice
>>>>    would be Camp Storer.
>>>>    - Talahi is too limited on sleeping accommodations. Also in a state
>>>>    of remodeling/construction.
>>>>    - Note: All of these places don't allow alcohol, so we absolutely
>>>>    can't be openly drinking.
>>>>    - We're "penciled in" for both Copneconic and Storer. I'll cancel
>>>>    one when we have a decision.
>>>>
>>>> Let me know what you think.
>>>> - John
>>>>
>>>> --
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>>>> menscouncil at uuaa.org
>>>> http://uuaa.org/mailman/listinfo/menscouncil_uuaa.org
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jim Schaefer, P.E.
>>> JVS Controls Inc.
>>> 3998 Edmonton Ct
>>> Ann Arbor MI 48103
>>> (734) 994-0223 office
>>> (734) 395-4941 mobile
>>>
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>>>
>> --
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>>
>
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