[menscouncil] Research into potential sites for an offsite Retreat
Tom Chettleburgh
tchettleburgh at gmail.com
Sun Jan 22 06:09:45 CST 2023
John,
Is there a minimum-attendance requirement? I recall the women were
struggling at one time to get enough attendance to make Copneconic work. I
am all for Copneconic this year, but I have no desire to meet a
minimum-attendance requirement.
Tom
On Sat, Jan 21, 2023 at 2:02 PM Russell, John <jrussell at reinhartrealtors.com>
wrote:
> Hmmmm. A couple things.....
>
> - As a different interpretation of the initial data, it appears to me,
> from totalling the Yes vs No counts, that there were 26 responses and 16
> were Yes, which means over 60% responded Yes to attending an offsite
> retreat.
> - In hindsight (which is always 20/20), we should have waited to send
> out the survey until I had more info. COVID is still "top of mind" for a
> lot of people. Some important points that I learned from the practices at
> the women's retreat that would address COVID concerns: With one exception
> of 5 friends in one sleeping room, the women had no more than 2 in a room
> for their Copneconic Retreat. Also, everyone had to provide a negative
> self-test just before the retreat, and they required wearing masks
> when in the indoor large spaces unless they were eating or drinking. For
> breakouts, the breakout groups could decide for themselves if they wanted
> to wear masks. Masks were not required outdoors.
>
> Camp Copneconic gave us 2 weeks to sign a contract. I'd like to propose
> we canvass the men again, stating that:
>
> 1. We'd have no more than 2 in a sleeping room, unless some men
> voluntarily wanted to add another.
> 2. COVID self-tests before arriving, which are provided to the Retreat
> organizers.
> 3. Masks required when in large indoor group activities, except during
> meals.
> 4. Masks not required in indoor breakouts *if the entire group* is
> comfortable without masks.
> 5. Masks not required outdoors.
> 6. No tent or RV camping allowed due to camp licensing restrictions.
>
> That said, if the consensus of the Men's Council is that we do a day-long
> gathering at the Church and not an offsite Retreat, that's fine. I'll
> pursue no further and there's no need to send another survey. Please, all
> men on the Council, chime in. Thank you,
> - John
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 7:45 PM Jim Schaefer <jim at jvscontrols.com> wrote:
>
>> Nice summary on retreat locations John, thanks !
>>
>> Thought I would give results of the 28 survey responses so far. (BTW..
>> in retrospect I think question 2 is not very useful)
>>
>> My interpretation is that people are slightly in favor of off-site, but
>> only 16 people said yes. In my mind 16 people is not enough momentum to
>> change to off-site. I think if it were off site there are more people that
>> would not come just because it was off site. Whereas if we held it at the
>> church our numbers would probably be higher. At the church we probably end
>> up serving more people.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>> Question 1:
>>
>> Hypothetically, if you were asked to sign up for the men's retreat today
>> and it cost $160 for two nights at a camp no more than 1 hour away from the
>> church would you sign up ? (Assume sleeping accommodations were 4 to 7
>> people in a room and there was no tent camping available. Trailer or RV OK)
>>
>> 10 no
>> 16 yes
>>
>> Question 2
>>
>> Would you attend if the only difference to the previous hypothetical
>> question was that tent camping was allowed ?
>> 10 no
>> 15 yes
>>
>> QUestion 3
>>
>> The men's council cannot organize an off-site retreat without more help.
>> Would you be willing to meet monthly and spend at least 10 hours in total
>> making the off-site retreat happen ?
>>
>> 14 no
>> 12 yes
>>
>>
>> Comments:
>> Love it!
>> Since it's been over 3 years since we did an off-site retreat, and some
>> men have never attended an offsite retreat, I'd like to put some context
>> into the intro, such as "Some have expressed a desire to hold a Friday
>> evening to Sunday morning retreat offsite at a summer camp location like we
>> did for many years." Also, in the retreat location question, I believe it
>> will be helpful to also add context to the type of room men will sleep in
>> such as "Assume sleeping accommodations were 4 to 7 people in a cabin-style
>> room and there was no tent camping available. Trailer or RV OK"
>> I greatly preferred the on-site at the UUAA building format. I do not
>> think I would do a multi-day off-site event, at least not this next time
>> around.
>> I would be glad to contribute to developing an agenda, but would leave
>> the logistics to someone else. Although I may not attend the Appleton Men's
>> Retreat next weekend as we may become grandparents this week, I have been
>> involved in that agenda which we entitled "When is enough, enough?" which
>> is addressing finances, social and work relationships, and self esteem.
>> John Burke
>> The coronavirus is still with us.
>> I am happy with the local retreats and would prefer that we continue to
>> hold them at the church.
>> I thought the one-day format at the church was excellent
>> 10/1 is my anniversary = often i can’t make the normal retreat weekend.
>> 2023 =special, so extended blackout-dates. I would still help, but i am not
>> available after 09/18 - 10/12
>> I would probably come one night or the other and stay in my van. I do
>> like the overnight component. I also enjoyed when we took time to make art
>> or crafts that I otherwise find it hard to get started on.
>> I can do specific tasks and attend occasional meetings, but I'd rather
>> not meet regularly
>> I will be happy to help plan future offsite retreats when I'm off the
>> board in a year and a half.
>> Sorry for not helping, but my slate is full right now.
>> I would pay extra to be in a room with less than 4 people. 7 people in a
>> room seems like a lot.
>> It's hard to answer the hypothetical. I plan to attend the retreat in
>> whatever form it happens. IF it's at UUAA again, I would strongly suggest
>> getting small group time started on Friday evening to allow more time for
>> focus and connection. I do not have time to join the planning and prep.
>> Thank you.
>> To be honest, I am still hesitant about being in larger in-person
>> gatherings. So while I'd love to spend this kind of extended time with
>> other UUAA men, I would say I am more of a "Maybe" at this point.
>>
>> On 1/20/2023 7:00 PM, Tom Chettleburgh wrote:
>>
>> John, Thank you. This is a great breakdown of these 4 camps. I agree
>> with you that the best two options are Copneconic and Storer. I also like
>> the idea of paying extra for some of the activities like canoeing/kayaking.
>>
>> With Copneconic, I wonder if the men will have an issue with the weekend,
>> being a Michigan home football game, and the cost--we would probably want
>> to charge $170 like the women. And this would not include a t-shirt. I am
>> fine with missing the game, but others may not be--maybe we can arrange the
>> day so we have a lengthy free time during the game.
>>
>> If the game limits attendance, Storer that last weekend in September may
>> be our better option.
>>
>> Tom
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 11:40 AM John Russell <jrtreetown at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Tom, Jim, Bob, (other members of Men's Council included as FYI, but
>>> input is welcome):
>>> As I committed in our Men's Council meeting on Saturday, I contacted
>>> some camps about a possible Men's offsite retreat in the Fall. I contacted
>>> four camps - Camp Copneconic (where the UU women held a retreat this past
>>> fall), Camp Storer (a "Y" camp similar to Camp Copneconic), Camp Talahi (a
>>> camp used for Men's retreats up until about 10 years ago, when they
>>> temporarily closed but are now open again), and Earthwell Retreat & Nature
>>> Sanctuary. All are within an hour's drive from A2. What I learned from my
>>> calls and other research:
>>>
>>>
>>> 1. Earthwell Retreat <https://www.earthwellretreat.com>
>>> - Jim Schaefer suggested looking into this camp, located outside
>>> Manchester
>>> - This camp offers "personal and group retreat experiences that
>>> promote harmony with nature, self, and others
>>> - 18 beds total across several cabins (and some of the beds are
>>> upper bunks), 30-person indoor space with an outdoor tent for larger
>>> gatherings, etc.
>>> - This could be a great space for a quiet retreat for a smaller
>>> group. They offer yoga, meditation, wellness themes. Food is catered, all
>>> vegetarian, and focused on farm-to-table.
>>> - We could rent the entire camp, but unfortunately it's *not
>>> large enough and doesn't have lodging nor meeting facilities that we need*
>>> .
>>> 2. Camp Talahi <http://camptalahi.org/location/>
>>> - Sleeping Space: 2 dorms, 22 bunk beds in each, plus three 500-600
>>> sq ft cabins with 4 beds each. As far as space, I believe we need to make
>>> an assumption that most men won't want to climb up to a top bunk. That
>>> said, the 2 dorms would accommodate 44 of us, with the cabins holding the
>>> rest. The cabins have no bathrooms.
>>> - Breakout space: The main lodge has a meeting area indoors, plus
>>> a front porch and a side porch, so breakout meeting space is available.
>>> - Food: The camp has a commercial kitchen but it's not staffed.
>>> They have an outside cook who can come in and cook for us. The current
>>> owners closed on the property in June, construction/repairs are ongoing.
>>> - Friday night potluck: not a problem.
>>> - Tents, RVs not a problem because we have the whole camp.
>>> - We could rent the entire camp at a cost of about $3,000-$3500.
>>> ($60- about $70/person ) This does not include food.
>>> - Dates Availability: The last two weekends in September are
>>> booked. Sept 15-17 is available.
>>> - Positives: We've held retreats there before. We can rent the
>>> entire space so we have privacy as with past camps used for retreats.
>>> - Negatives: The big dorm sleeping arrangements, repairs and
>>> updates in progress.
>>> 3. YMCA Storer Camp <https://www.ymcastorercamps.org>
>>> - Used for Men's retreats about 20 years ago.
>>> - Sleeping Space: Four "Modern Lodges" with each lodge having
>>> four units that sleep 7 people each (not using top bunks), for a total of
>>> 28/lodge. We could use 2 lodges and cutoff registration at 56, or I could
>>> look into an additional lodge and/or a couple cabins. There are also
>>> "Rustic Cabins" but those have no bathrooms so guys would have to walk to a
>>> modern lodge to use the bathrooms.
>>> - Breakout space: Each modern lodge has a common room with
>>> couches, coffee tables and a fireplace. We could also use areas in the
>>> dining hall or another large space (Doc Miller Learning Center)
>>> - Food: Camp provides 4 meals (3 Saturday plus Sunday breakfast).
>>> Dietary restrictions can be accommodated (Vegetarian, Vegan, etc.).
>>> - Friday potluck: We could set up on Friday evening and do our
>>> Friday potluck in the Doc Miller Learning Center.
>>> - Tents, RVs: Per my contact he doesn't see a problem, but he
>>> said he had to look into it and get back to me. Based on what Camp
>>> Copneconic told me, I will say it's probably a No.
>>> - This camp provides activities at an extra cost if we're
>>> interested.
>>> - Dates Availibility: Right now, the last 2 weekends in Sept are
>>> available.
>>> - Positives: I believe this camp has the space, food,
>>> availability and features we need. My contact was very willing to work with
>>> us.
>>> - Negatives: Other groups could also be at the camp at the same
>>> time. The Dining Hall has 2 sides, so we could be somewhat separated, and
>>> we'd have separate space for sleeping, breakouts, etc. No tents, RVs.
>>> - Cost TBD. I would expect it will be similar to Camp Copneconic,
>>> but if we're sincerely interested in this camp, I can nail it down more.
>>> 4. YMCA Camp Copneconic <https://www.campcopneconic.org>
>>> - The location scoped out by Jim Schaefer and Rick Witten prior to
>>> the pandemic, and actually used for about 50 UU Women for a retreat in Fall
>>> of 2022.
>>> - I spoke with Judi Lintott, organizer for the women's 2022
>>> retreat, who was very helpful with providing information.
>>> - Sleeping space: The UU women used the Conference Center, which
>>> has 20 separate rooms, each with a couple beds, plus a couple smaller
>>> lodges. This is a large camp, and there are multiple lodges, so it will not
>>> be a problem to arrange sleeping space.
>>> - Breakout space: Dining Hall, Conference Center, a couple other
>>> lodges. No problem.
>>> - Food: The camp has it's own catering service. Dietary
>>> restrictions will be accommodated. 4 meals provided (Sat breakfast, lunch,
>>> dinner and Sunday breakfast)
>>> - Friday Potluck: The women did this on Friday evening. The camp
>>> provided silverware and utensils. We have to commit to no peanuts and no
>>> tree nuts.
>>> - This camp provides activities at an extra cost if we're
>>> interested (Archery, ziplines, climbing wall, kayaks/canoes). Small
>>> additional costs.
>>> - No tent camping nor RVs. The camp contact (Zack) said they
>>> don't have a license for tents and RVs, so they can't do it.
>>> - The UU women did a fair amount of COVID precautions and actions
>>> - e.g. everyone had to provide a negative self-test just before the
>>> retreat, masks during breakouts indoors. We could also do this, or some
>>> subset based on the COVID climate next fall.
>>> - Availability: Weekend of Sept 22-24 is available. The following
>>> weekend is not.
>>> - Cost: $150/person to the camp. The UU women added $20/person
>>> for incidentals.
>>> - Positives: Tried and tested recently by the UU women. Visited
>>> and actually booked for the men in the past (but cancelled due to COVID).
>>> This camp has the space, food, availability and features we need. We can
>>> separate our group into small groups for sleeping. The contact was very
>>> willing to work with us.
>>> - Negatives: Although the women had the camp to themselves, we
>>> may not be alone, per the contact. The Dining Hall has 2 sides, so we
>>> could be somewhat separated, and we'd have separate space for sleeping,
>>> breakouts, etc. No tents, RVs.
>>>
>>> *My thoughts:*
>>>
>>> - My first choice/recommendation is Camp Copneconic. 2nd choice
>>> would be Camp Storer.
>>> - Talahi is too limited on sleeping accommodations. Also in a state
>>> of remodeling/construction.
>>> - Note: All of these places don't allow alcohol, so we absolutely
>>> can't be openly drinking.
>>> - We're "penciled in" for both Copneconic and Storer. I'll cancel
>>> one when we have a decision.
>>>
>>> Let me know what you think.
>>> - John
>>>
>>> --
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>>> menscouncil at uuaa.org
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>>>
>>
>> --
>> Jim Schaefer, P.E.
>> JVS Controls Inc.
>> 3998 Edmonton Ct
>> Ann Arbor MI 48103
>> (734) 994-0223 office
>> (734) 395-4941 mobile
>>
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>>
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